Talk:Capital punishment in San Marino

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"one of only two countries in the world to have carried out no executions since before 1800…"[edit]

I had removed the above-noted claim, as the reference does not support it. Aridd then restored this claim on the grounds that "The source is quite clear. All other countries have carried out executions after 1800." Perhaps I am misinterpreting the source, then, but in its table I see a number of countries where the column "Date (DE) = date de la dernière exécution" (date of last execution) is blank. Regardless of the source, it seems rather obvious that dozens of extant countries cannot have carried out executions after 1800, since they came into existence only recently and have never had or applied the death penalty. Aridd, could you please explain how all these countries carried out executions after 1800? —Psychonaut (talk) 08:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point. But from 1800 onwards, there were only two places (or, if you prefer, two states) in the world where people were not being executed for crimes. We need to refer to the situation as it was at the time; otherwise, all figures are meaningless. A change in the nature of the state does not wipe the slate clean, so to speak. For instance, it would be rather odd to say that no executions took place in Papua New Guinea after 1800 on the grounds that that the state of PNG was established in 1975 and has never executed anyone since its establishment. People were executed in what is now PNG prior to it becoming independent.
To put it another way: It is clearly notable that San Marino is one of only two countries in existence in its modern form at the time to have ceased to apply the death penalty before the 19th century. Clarifications can perhaps be added, maybe as a footnote, if you think it necessary? But I do think the information should be presented in some form. (Incidentally, I'm going to be offline for a while. If other editors want to look into this, it can perhaps be settled in my absence; otherwise, we could resume this in about a week.) Aridd (talk) 20:40, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me that your argument rather undermines your position; like Papua New Guinea, San Marino and Liechtenstein were also formerly part of countries which practised the death penalty. If independence did not wash away the taint of capital punishment from Papua New Guinea, then why do you hold that it did for the other two (or at least for Liechtenstein, which was still part of the French Empire for part of the period in question)? I agree that there might be some arbitrary set of conditions under which San Marino and Liechtenstein could claim to be unique, but I suspect that their formulation might be rather complicated. Psychonaut (talk) 22:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
San Marino was a sovereign republic at the time. And I think Liechtenstein was technically sovereign even when under French supervision. It seems to me there's a clear distinction from, say, PNG. It's surely relevant to note countries that decided early on to cease applying the death penalty. Aridd (talk) 18:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Could you suggest a more specific wording for the claim which is supported by the source, then? The present one is, on its face, too easy to refute by pointing to more recently established countries which have never applied the death penalty. —Psychonaut (talk) 20:41, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If we want to keep it simple, I would suggest something like: "San Marino is one of only two countries in the world (existing as a political entity at the time) to have carried out no executions since before 1800". Aridd (talk) 17:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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